Tithing on a Tight Budget & the Meaning of Foreknowledge

Dave Drury: Some questions start in the mind, and others start at the kitchen table beside a stack of bills. Today on Focal Point, we're sharing moments from Ask Pastor Mike Live, Pastor Mike Fabarez's weekly call-in program. And these conversations cover a lot of ground, from the practical to the profound. You'll hear about giving when money is tight, the moment the temple curtain tore in two, and a verse in Romans 8 that believers have been debating for centuries. I'm Dave Drury. Let's listen in.
Pastor Mike Fabarez: Let's talk to Mike. Mike, you're on the air with Pastor Mike Fabarez. How can I help?
Guest (Male): How can I help? Hey, Mike.
Pastor Mike Fabarez: Hey. Hey.
Guest (Male): Pastor. I, it's about tithing. I gave my life to the Lord about a year ago from he's delivered me from a heavy addiction, and it's been a hard walk, and I'm really battling with my, I haven't tithed. I gave money here and there. I've been building my credit back and just paying bills off, catching up from a life of not doing hardly anything. And now I'm paying a lot of legal issues, court costs from the consequences of the lifestyle. And, but every time I get my, get paid, the money is, it's either, okay, I pay 10%, and so I pay the 450 dollars, or and then I don't, I mean, I get, I have a lot of fear because that really leaves a zero balance basically on eating and groceries and whatnot, and I mean the necessities.
Pastor Mike Fabarez: Right. Yeah, well, here's the thing, sometimes it's very difficult to give, but I would say this, better to give something than nothing, because the Bible says you should be giving to your church, which is really giving to God, but that's how it's described in 1 Corinthians chapter 9. So, even if you could give a nickel, right, I'm saying that is something. You may think it's nothing, but it is something because even Jesus said a gal that gave 2 pennies was giving, more than the people that were putting in lots of denominations of money because, she didn't have much. So God is going to honor you just by giving what you can give. And as he says in 2 Corinthians, Paul does.
Guest (Male): I was wondering, yeah, yeah, because I just heard that actually on the, on the, before you came on, that one of the pastors was referring to that, and that's what, so then it's not so much about the 10%, but about the giving heart, so I am all right to give half or whatever, anything like that then.
Pastor Mike Fabarez: Sure. Yeah, you give what you can give, and I was just going to quote 2 Corinthians where he says, you know, we can't give what we don't have, we can't give according to what we, you know, don't have in, in, in, we got to give as we are able to give. And here's the thing, I don't appreciate people saying they can't give when they're going out and buying their, their 12 dollar fancy lattes or whatever, and buying, 2,000 dollar bikes to go biking on. Surely they can give more than saying, no, I can't give anything. But there are people certainly that are in constraints and they can't give much, but they could give 25 cents, right? And I'm saying they probably could find that between the cushions in their house, even if they're going, you know, hand to mouth, and all they can eat is Top Ramen every night, if they even still make Top Ramen. And all I'm telling you is give something. Every time you go, give something. Every time you get paid, give something. And if you give something, you'll be in the habit of giving something. It's like somebody, you know, if you go to the gym, there are guys lifting heavy, heavy weights, but there may be some old dude in there that's 85 years old, and, you know, he maybe he's been bedridden for months, and he's just barely lifting a tiny little, you know, one pound weight, and you could laugh at him, but he's doing something. He's not laying in bed, and you know what? That's good for him. He's building some kind of mobility, and it's good for his body. So I'm not going to mock anybody who's giving, and I want them to give, and I want them to give according to what they have, not according to what they don't have. So give. And I'm just going to tell you, Mike, start giving. Start giving this week. I mean, it's Easter week. What a great time to resurrect your giving by going to church this weekend and giving something. Seriously, if it's 4 dollars, put 4 dollars in the bag and say, God, I got 4 dollars. That's what I got, and I'm going to give it, and I'm going to start giving every single week I come to church. And just make that your habit. It's like going to the gym and lifting a 2 pound weight. Yeah, maybe one day you'll be over there lifting, you know, 500 pounds, but right now it's a 1 pound, 2 pound weight. So go do it and keep doing it and do it to the Lord, right? Don't care what everyone else is giving. You give to the Lord, and God's going to build that muscle, and I guarantee you he will honor it because Jesus already told us he honors that because that widow who gave the 2 pennies, Jesus, he hailed that woman. She's giving more than all the others. And don't let someone tell you that that is somehow a condemnation. Jesus was not condemning her. Jesus always applauds people for keeping what the law said because he was still living under the Old Testament law, and the Old Testament law said that when you go to those festival feasts, which was what was going on there at that point, you were not to come empty-handed. This woman did not come empty-handed. She gave more than she even could afford to give. She gave all that she had to live on, which was two copper coins, and she gave them both, and Jesus said she gave more than all the others. That wasn't a condemnation, and there's some weird interpretations that some people try to foist on that text. That is not what the text is teaching. It's teaching that this is a woman that is worthy of note, right? It's like trying to condemn the woman who poured the alabaster jar of perfume on Jesus' feet. Now, now you're starting to sound like, well, that's a waste of money. No, Jesus said this is going to be told in her honor for all of perpetuity because it's a extravagant gift, just like that woman had an extravagant gift, and she gave it, even though the Pharisees might have been very imperfect people, and they may have turned around and crucified Christ. She was keeping the law, doing exactly what she was supposed to, just like Jesus kept the law. So it was a good thing. You're doing a good thing, Mike, if you go to church this weekend and put something in the bag or the plate or however they collect their offering. So go do it and call me back next week and tell me how it felt. Okay. Sounds good, Mike. Thanks for the call. Let's talk to Alexis. You're on the air with Pastor Mike. How can I help?
Guest (Male): Hi, Pastor Mike. I'm still relatively new to the New Testament, and I came across this passage, I think it's in Mark and Luke, I think, oh, in Matthew 2, it says that when Jesus died, the curtain split in two. And it was just a random question, like, was the curtain like, like right there in visible view, or was it like far away and you could...
Pastor Mike Fabarez: Well, that's interesting that you ask that because there is debate about which veil was torn. this is some debate because some people will say it couldn't have been the veil between the holy place and the Holy of Holies because only the priests would be able to see that. and yet I don't think it has to be the outer veil that gets you from the outer court where you had the altar to get into the holy place, which people could see, because God is totally aware of what's going on, and certainly the priest would know that it was ripped, and it would be verified. God has no problem telling us in his word what's happening behind closed doors, and it would be known, it would be verified. So I tend to think it was the inner veil, even though I can't prove that. There were two veils, and we have to guess at which curtain was torn, because there were two. And the two that existed, both were impressive. If you read Josephus, he talks about how thick it was. I forget the thickness, but it was so thick that he said if you put two horses and hooked two ropes to it, they could go in different directions and not be able to tear it. And this is because Herod put so much money into remodeling the temple. It was just an extravagant money was poured into this that apparently this details of this veil were so elaborate and so thickly made that it was remarkable. And it was torn from the top to the bottom, which of course was saying this was a miracle. So in Matthew 27, it's recorded. And of course, ultimately, as the book of Hebrews tries to make clear, because God was making that obsolete. And from what you can read, even after this, from 33 AD all the way to 70 AD when it was destroyed, there is a sense in which the priests spoke about the fact that something was not right. Everyone sensed that all this worship on the Temple Mount was off, and something, you know, some the Ichabod, as we say in the Old Testament, had taken place, the glory had left, and they were going through the motions for 40 years until the destruction of Jerusalem. But, yeah.
Guest (Male): Yeah, I didn't even know that there were two, two, two veils, so I guess I have to read more, and thanks for your answer, Pastor Mike.
Pastor Mike Fabarez: Okay, very good. Thanks for the question, Alexis. Call back anytime.
Dave Drury: You're listening to a segment from Ask Pastor Mike Live, which you can join in every week, Tuesday through Thursday at 1:00 PM Central. Find more details at askpastormike.live.
Pastor Mike Fabarez: Let's go to John. John, you're on the air with Pastor Mike. How can I help?
Guest (Male): Yeah, hello, Pastor Mike.
Pastor Mike Fabarez: Hello.
Guest (Male): What is the complete meaning of Romans 8:29? Complete meaning of all parts of it. How do you relate?
Pastor Mike Fabarez: Yeah, well, you want my long answer to that, you can go to my teaching on that at pastormike.com. Just look up the book of Romans, my teaching on chapter 8 in that section, I take the verses around all that, but I go and I do an hour teaching on that. But in short, right, I think the concept here that is described with the word foreknew is not that God looked at what was going to happen through the corridor of time as though he needed to and saw what was going to happen. He passively watched it like an audience and then went back in time and then did the thing that comes next, and that is to predestine it, right? I don't think that the proousio took place, the predestining took place after he passively watched what people would do ahead of time. And that's how people often view this concept of foreknowledge. And that's not, I think, what's going on as it describes foreknowledge elsewhere, like in Acts chapter 2, when it says Jesus was delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God. God has a plan, right? He figures this out. He has this as a sketched out, decreed plan, and as he delivered up Christ, right, he set that all in motion. It's the same thing here in Romans chapter 8. He figures this out, and he predestines that the people that were sinners headed to God's wrath, as it says in Ephesians chapter 2, instead are going to be redirected by his spirit, drawn, right, by the Father or by the Father to the Son, and they're going to find life in Christ and be ultimately conformed to the image of the Son, ultimately when they're redeemed in their bodies. In Romans chapter 8, it says the redemption of their bodies, which you just said earlier, and they're going to glorify the Father by being conformed to the Son and bowing down to the Son. So if he's done this, predestined them, then he's going to, in time, call them, and if he's going to call them, he's going to justify them, and if he's going to justify them, he's one day going to glorify them, and they'll be completely conformed to the Son. So, yeah, this is a thorny topic for people because we don't like the fact that our salvation and our process of being saved is contingent on God. We would rather see it as he passively watches us, and we'd like his decision to predestine us be contingent on us. And I think if we really think about finite, fallen, corrupted, mortal man saying, well, I want the infinite, holy, transcendent, omnipotent God to be dependent on my choices as opposed to my choices being dependent on God, I think we should just get ourselves in perspective and maybe say it makes more sense for my decisions to be contingent on God and not God's decisions to be contingent on me. And I think that's how the idea of foreknowledge is described throughout the Bible. So that that's my understanding of it, even though that leaves us with some struggles, which I don't think we should struggle with, because everyone has to say none of us would come to faith in Christ were it not for God's initiatory work in bringing us. Are we involved in it? Of course we're involved in it, but we wouldn't be involved in it if God had not drawn us to Christ, right? If we're not drawn to the Son, and no one's going to come to God unless God is at work and his spirit is convicting us of sin, righteousness, and judgment. So I'm not sure where you stand on all this, John, but I know it's a thorny topic and a lot of people struggle with it, but these are two things laid side by side in scripture, and that is our call to say, respond to the gospel, and our assignment as ambassadors to go out and tell our friends and neighbors and coworkers, respond to the gospel, repent and put your trust in Christ. Jesus came preaching, right, Mark 1, the gospel, right? Repent and believe in the gospel. We're supposed to tell people to repent and believe in the gospel. That's exactly what we're supposed to tell them. Right now, I get people writing me letters. They don't like even that I say that sometimes. They say, why are you telling them to do something they're not capable of doing? Because Jesus did, and he tells us to do the same. Call people to repentance. And Paul did. He says he calls people to repentance, and he tells them to do deeds in keeping with repentance. So I'm going to do exactly what Christ did, what Paul did, what the Bible tells me to do as an ambassador, right? And I know I'm calling people to make a decision. I'm calling people to repent. I'm calling people to trust, and they are in time actually doing that. But I do know behind the scenes on the other side of the tapestry, this is an act of God's predestined foreknowledge, all according to the definite plan of God. And I just am going to give him credit for that. And that is something, a bit of a struggle for people. And if they struggle with it, I think one little book that may help people is JI Packer's little book called Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God. And people think that if we believe in the sovereignty of God, then we're never going to evangelize. And I think that's ridiculous, right? I think our church, unlike a lot of churches, are very, very evangelistic, and yet we have no problem affirming the sovereignty of God, and we give all glory to God for every salvation that we encounter. And yet we had so many conversions, we couldn't even fit all of our baptisms in three services just two weeks ago or three weeks ago, whatever it was. And so we're seeing people come to Christ who are making decisions to follow Christ. We can call them that, even though we know this is God's sovereign work in people's lives. So I may be saying things you don't need to hear, because I don't know where you stand on this, but that's my brief discussion of it. If you want an hour on it, go to PastorMike.com, and you can hear me teach on Romans chapter 8, verse 29. Any of that help, John?
Guest (Male): Thank you. You asked me where I stood on it, and let me just briefly explain what a pastor taught me, who knows how to parse Greek verbs and everything else. He said the important part of that verse is the last part, to be conformed to the image of Christ. And then once you are conformed to the image of Christ, you are destined to go to heaven, and God knows in advance that you're going to go to heaven because you conformed yourself to the image of Christ through your own free will. That's the explanation that works for me. It's that God does not know in advance what I'm going to decide to do, only till after I decide to do something, then he knows what I'm going to decide to do. So God's not omniscient then? Works for me, and I just wanted to know what you thought about that explanation. Well, that explanation... Conform ourselves to the image of Christ through our own free will, then we are destined to go to heaven, and God knows that we're destined to go to heaven because we conformed ourselves to the image of Christ.
Pastor Mike Fabarez: Well, I see a lot of problems with that view, in part, just starting that that would certainly strip Christ, God from, the Triune God from omniscience, number one. Number two, it would seem to, the way you've stated it, put the contingency of our salvation on something we're doing by our free will to conform our behavior, which of course the Bible says is not the way we're saved, right? Ephesians 2:8 and 9, Titus 3:5. I mean, there's so many passages that speak to the fact that that's not at all how we, you know, merit the grace of Christ. It is a free gift. It's not of works. Of course, we're created for good works in Christ Jesus, but the point is, the predicate is, we are created in Christ Jesus. We're his workmanship. He has to do that first before we can ever start the process of progressive sanctification being conformed to his image, which is not even complete, according to 1 John chapter 3, until we die and meet him. Then we'll be like him because we'll see him face to face. So I have plenty of problems with how you stated that, John, whether that's your pastor's view and you're just your derivative view, but that, yeah, I don't agree with that at all and would disagree with that, seeing plenty of things that are unbiblical about it.
Guest (Male): How can we have free will and be predestined to do anything, and God knows ahead of time what we're going to choose to do before we do it? That's contrary to free will. How can we be free?
Pastor Mike Fabarez: In your little brain and my little brain, it may be very hard for us to reconcile these things because they seem to be an antinomy. They seem to be things that do not comport in our thinking. And yet I'm saying in scripture, they're laid side by side without any conflict. As God says, he's absolutely sovereign. Nothing happens apart from his will. A bird does not fall from the ground to the ground apart from your father. God is completely in charge of all. He works everything after the counsel of his own will, according to Ephesians chapter 1, and that's exactly what the Bible teaches. And there's no, there's no, I mean, I can go verse after verse after verse after verse. There's probably two-thirds of the passages that are going to lean in the direction of God has complete control over everything in the universe. And then I have all of these passages that put contingencies on things happening based on what I'm going to do, which of course is absolutely biblical as well. I'm calling people all the time to make decisions and do things, which of course is putting the onus on their will, on their volition. We're made in the image of God. We make decisions every day. You chose what color socks to put on. You chose what shirt you were going to wear, and of course we're making decisions. When it comes to the moral decisions to seek after God, Romans 3 says we're never going to make that decision as totally depraved creatures, right? We're never going to have the thought to turn to God, to love God, to seek God, unless God first puts that into our hearts, right? We are utter despair before God. It is, according to the Bible, this is the problem. We're never going to have that concept unless God is going to draw us. So when you say free will, we're not free in our will to wake up one day and say, I want to embrace the virtues of being a child of God and inherit the kingdom of God, and I want to seek him and be holy. It's just according to scripture, the scripture bars that as a possibility of something I want. It's like putting a salad, you know, before, you know, a, you know, whatever, a grizzly bear, and saying, yeah, this is what he's going to choose for dinner if I'm laying out meats all around him. He's not going to choose the salad. He's going to eat the meat because that's his nature. And according to Ephesians 2, your nature and mine is not to choose God. It's to flee from God. It's to dig our own cisterns and to ignore the spring of living water. That's what I know from the scripture from beginning to end. It's to choose our own way. So I know as depraved creatures, we need God to work in us before we ever are going to make any moves toward Christ. So you say free will, and I understand the concept of you being able to choose what car you're going to drive. I understand that. But when it comes to the concepts that we're talking about here, new life in Christ, seeking righteousness, right, wanting to know God, the Bible couldn't be clearer on these issues. We're dead in our transgressions and sins, but God made us alive together in Christ. This is how the Bible teaches us. Now, I know the experience when the gospel is preached to me, my experience is I feel the conviction, which of course the Bible tells me comes from the conviction of the Spirit sent into the world to convict me of my sin, of righteousness, the standard, and of judgment that I deserve hell, which I never felt before the Spirit convicts me of that. It's not because I'm smarter than my neighbor that I figured that out and he didn't. It's because the Spirit of God has convicted me of that. So I have the experience of making a decision to follow Christ. I get that. I know that, and I want other people to experience that. And as I'm doing it, though, and they do respond, we're both going to put our arm around each other, open a Bible 5 years from now, 2 years from now, even 5 months from now, and say, praise God, the Lord was gracious to pluck us from our own sin. We are all saved of grace, and God is a God of grace. He plucks us from our sin, and that's why I don't buy that view, John. And the concept of free will, I know that's so simple in our, it rolls off our tongue, but it's not the sense that in the Bible, right, that means that we have unfettered ability to do whatever we choose to do as fallen creatures post Genesis 3. And that's all I'm saying. We need God, right? We need God to do everything, even to live and breathe and have our being. Nothing is independent of God, and certainly not seeking after God.
Dave Drury: That's Pastor Mike Fabarez and the end of today's Ask Pastor Mike Live here on Focal Point. Whether your question is about your budget, your Bible, or the sovereignty of God, Pastor Mike would welcome your call Tuesday through Thursday at 1:00 PM Central. The number and details are online at askpastormike.live, and earlier episodes are on YouTube under Ask Pastor Mike Live. Pastor Mike told one caller today to start small and keep at it, like someone regaining strength with a one-pound weight. Trust in God tends to grow the same way, one hard day at a time. This month's resource, Psalms of Trust by Pastor H. B. Charles Jr., is a companion for exactly that kind of growth. Its 10 chapters follow people with every reason to panic and show how each one settled on confidence in God instead. From Psalm 27, trusting the Lord in every situation, to Psalm 91 and the shelter of the Most High. Keep it by the bed or get an extra copy in hand it to a friend who feels like they're barely holding on. Request Psalms of Trust with your gift to Focal Point today. Call 888-320-5885. Again, that's 888-320-5885, or give online at focalpointradio.org. Would you rather give by mail? Address your gift to Focal Point, Post Office Box 2850, Laguna Hills, California, 92654. Each caller today picked up the phone hoping for an answer from scripture rather than one more opinion. Keeping those lines open takes faithful friends. Think of the new believer from today's first call, trying to honor God with very little. He heard a biblical answer because listeners like you decided this program matters. A monthly gift, whatever the amount, makes you part of the reason someone hears God's word applied to their exact situation. Become a Focal Point partner at focalpointradio.org or by calling 888-320-5885. Well, I'm Dave Drouet. Rest up this weekend and come back next week for more Focal Point with Pastor Mike Fabarez. Today's program was produced and sponsored by Focal Point Ministries.